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The Case For The Inverted W, Part 4

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  1. Turn 22 says:

    I don’t understand it but I see where the uninformed or uneducated see the elbow go up and naturally assume its the shoulder joint raising the elbow.

    How do people negatively comment on such things that they don’t understand or take the time to investigate.

    • Lantz says:

      FEAR FACTOR! There’s a lot of guys that take myths and try to make money out of them or a name for themselves. One of the more popular guys uses it as a platform to sell products and his idea or view to what is pleasing arm action. That’s my thoughts anyway

  2. Matt says:

    I stumbled across this researching the quote on quote inverted W and while it does reassure me about the state of some pitchers, I don’t think I’m totally convinced it’s wise to throw that way. Many major league clubs go through the trouble of changing young players who use this and I don’t know if that’s a result of superstition about the delivery or if there’s sufficient evidence we’re not seeing that links certain injuries to that style.

    • Lantz says:

      Matt,

      Thanks for commenting, but what MLB teams attempt to change this? I think at that level, they could hope to change it, but it’s not going to happen. I have never seen any scientific data that supports it requires changing and most of the hard throwers in the game have this type of arm action.

      Thanks for commenting.

      Lantz

      • Paul Nyman says:

        What most people don’t seem to understand is that pitchers who demonstrate what I call the inverted W didn’t develop their pitching mechanics with the intention of throwing with the inverted W. What happened is that throwing process of trial and error they determined that this was the most effective way for them to throw the baseball. And I’m willing to bet that more pitchers who throw very hard exhibit the characteristics of the inverted W that being scapula loading. In other words the inverted W is a means to an end i.e. the and being throwing the baseball hard.

  3. Turn 22 says:

    I find it hard to believe that major league clubs would try and change the “W” in any pitcher. At the cost of their velocity? Nope, can’t see it.

  4. Kevin "Goody" Goodman says:

    This is baseball right? Maybe, since the word inverted is 3 syllables long, it might be throwing some people off. What is going on here is quite simple, the upper arm is being pulled back as the pitcher begins to intiate rotation of the upper body. Actually both upper arms are being pulled back. This is what creates that “big in the chest” look that I think most people understand. When the pitcher makes SFC, his weight is generally in the middle of his pitching stance, and he is just beginning to get into the Inverted W posture. I refer to this moment in time (SFC) as transitioning from a backside to a frontside unload. The upper arms are not pulled back at this point in time (I call this the Flat L because the hand is on top of the ball and the palm of the hand is facing the ground and the lower arm is at 90 degrees of flexion and the upper arms are not pulled back at this point in time) but it is the next sequence in the movement as the pitcher begins upper body rotation and the loading of the glove side scapula is what helps get the pitcher to both get his weight to the front leg and initiates rotation. This is the moment that rushing can occur. Rushing is when the front side gets ahead of the backside, they are not in synch with each other. So when the upper arms are pulled back, that creates the posture: “Inverted W.” Like Mr. Nyman has said numerous times, it has nothing to do where the elbow is, it is a statement about what the upper arm is doing. And when you throw the ball, the upper arm is pulled forward. Now in most things when it comes to acceleration, the longer I have to get up to top speed the faster I will be when I finally get there. Now if I want to throw the shit out of it (A great Nyman ebook BTW) do I want to move my upper arm, say 30 to 40 degrees of movement or would I be better off moving my arm 50 to 60 degrees of movement. In other words, will my sports car be faster at 1/8 of a mile or at a 1/4 of a mile? It’s a no brainer people, pull the upper arm back and FIRE!

  5. Dan Farnsworth says:

    Just came across this site yesterday and am quite impressed with the content here. I’d like a clarification on what actually is the issue people with the Inverted W. I had thought that it was an issue some coaches had with the timing of the delivery, where pitchers had gotten into foot strike before getting the ball above the shoulder level and still being in the Inverted W position. This I could understand to a degree, especially with pitchers who end up rapidly changing their posture after foot strike to rush their arms back in position to throw the ball.

    However, I could also see this as being a sign of efficiency as it may help create even more of the whip action a pitcher needs to create velocity.

    Is the original argument simply that pitchers should not allow their elbow to go above the shoulder at all, or is it after a certain point in the delivery as I understood it to be? And do you see any merit to the claim that not getting the ball above shoulder height at foot strike could be seen as an injury predictor?

    Thanks for the great information!

  6. Brendan says:

    If the inverted W isn’t something that caused all of the arm problems, then how do you keep yourself from getting hurt? I’m a person that could be thrown under the inverted w group, and I’ve recently had tommy john surgery. I just don’t really understand what went wrong then, other than conditioning and keeping my arm strong or using other parts of my body more. Just trying to keep myself injury free and also trying to regain velocity and go above where I was.

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